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Talk:History Repeated: Double the Trouble
Is there an order to the posts or do we go as we are needed? If there's an order, it'd be best to post it here for reference. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 02:36, October 1, 2014 (UTC) Nah, just do you.--Serk is #1 Two things, One, I started writing that before serk had posted, let alone sei and serk again. Two, i basically made my arm huge to break the grip, release the tech to put it down to normal size, which would have left both the arms and the tentacles out of reach of him, and used my light weight and wind release stream to move away since i was not in contact with anything, though chosuchi probably has a sore arm from all of this. its not worthless, it is only worth less (talk) 04:11, October 2, 2014 (UTC) Seireitou - What amazes me most it that a good role player such as yourself will sometimes get ahead of himself. First of all, you may have posted, but you clearly didn't read. FIRST OF ALL... My Words Directly Quoted From the Role Play: "Back in the real world, Parallel Ace had alerted Ace that the chakra transmission stopped, but wasn't worried as he just had the clones store the chakra in themselves." Upon his clones realizing that the chakra transfer process was interupted, the clones stopped transferring the chakra to Ace's teammates and INSTEAD, stored it within themselves. SECOND OF ALL... Ace is clearly in the real world, and I purposely typed out my intentions to see if you would do what I assumed you would, and I turned out to be correct! You read my actual RP thoughts and made the statement: "Chakra would also seep from the mark that Ace left on them all" This proves that you don't even read techniques that people post, because if you did, then you'd know that my Chakra Transmission Seal specifically states: "A special seal developed by Ace which allows the transfer of chakra to and from individuals. This effectly links the users chakra together, but chakra is only transferred when willed to do so." This means that there's no way possible for chakra to leak out without authorization from the sender and receiver. THIRD OF ALL... You also read my mind about trying to get in and decided to put that down by suddenly deactivating your technique, as you know I understood its workings and was going to take it down myself; you figured that you'd do the honors to kept me from doing them and therefore giving some partial credit to your statement of it being impossible to get to the main dimension otherwise. If I wanted to, I could have easily shut down the entire process myself. I could have used Jikuunuru no neglect space-time within my personal space, allowing me to pass your boundry, if I wanted to. But knowing you, you would have cancelled it, somehow, someway. Hell, I could of used your technique (Uchu) to take down your own barrier, which was my intention, but you took it down yourself after saying it was impossible to do outright, which isn't the case - there are no Absolutes in Naruto, or Fanon. I noticed you said that Ace was running around, flailing his techniques around with absurd names and acting like a god. The only one acting like a god is you wearing a "Stone Bowl of Buddah" on your head, preforming techniques and deeming them impossible to overcome, but in the end, I'm not worried, I just wanted a good role play, so I'll stay for the finale to achieve victory. You seem so eager to end the battle, but the truth is, it's just begun - so try and stop me, because this roleplay won't end unless you leave it because in the end: Our team with win this battle, Regardless of the measures that need to be taken... Princeharris1993 20:35, October 2, 2014 (UTC) :Harris - What amazes me is how little you are paying attention to anything, despite my advice to you before. It doesn't matter if it "stopped", the fact of the matter is, the connection still exists. You never stated the marks were removed from them nor that Ace disabled them, only that he stopped sending chakra through them. So what are you telling me? If Kurama stops giving Naruto chakra, then Naruto isn't the Jinchuriki of Kurama anymore? How convenient. :Seireitou has Byakugan. Say it with me, Bya-Ku-Gan. And, wait, here's another shocker. Byakugan can pick up on the movements of chakra. Gasp! Why, the very idea! And no duh chakra is going to leak from those marks, since, well, that's the connection spot between them and Ace. But I'd think you'd know that, seeing as you cast the technique. Or is it that you spend your time filling Ace up with 40 new moves here and 25 new moves there that you tend to forget the details behind your very techniques? :Since you seem so quick as to cite your pages, let me cite them too. "This effectly links the users chakra together, but chakra is only transferred when willed to do so." You here that? "Effectly links". Well, first of all, it's effectively, not effectly. Second of all, I see there that the link still exists even if chakra transfers aren't happening. Wow, isn't that exactly what I said before? Sure sounds like it. :And now, here are my questions. How does Ace go to a dimension he's never been before? How does he see a technique being cast when he wasn't even in the same dimension to see it being cast? How does he get around a dojutsu meant to close off boundaries simply because he has some magic parallel self to do it for him? How does Ace magically get a new technique that conveniently serves the purpose of undoing the opponent's technique? (By the way, it's called metagaming and it's looked down upon in roleplays as being cheap as all hell. Nice work.) :Now, you see, it sounds more like you're the one pulling off cheap moves instead of me. But do you hear me bitching about it? Not really. Because at the end of the day, you can give Ace a million new techniques, but you won't best my experience and know-how. No matter what you try. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 01:25, October 3, 2014 (UTC) The barrier Yeah, i didn't try and punch through your dimensional barrier, i stopped it from completing. His arm occupied the space it had to go through from the moment he noticed the ball starting to form, which considering that the barrier had to have taken some time considering it's size, even if it was only a second or two. So it places his arm, which is not only significantly enhanced in durability via both that senjutsu enhanced glove, and his own extreme natural durability, but is also significantly larger than your chakra construct vs a barrier with the only applied property being a move which grants its user the ability to forge powerful mystical constructs from the pure essence passed down directly from the Kuremisago bloodline. So yeah, i never physically punched the damn thing, I interdicted the completion of it's performance. Your enhancement of it only occurred afterwards, after it had stopped forming due to his arm being in the way. This renders it completely cutting off the space non-functional, which would stop the yin and yang seal from sealing the entire area.. TL;DR, I stopped your barrier from being completed, i didn't punch it to pieces. :You know, that's funny. Let's go to the tapes for a minute, shall we? Ah yes, right here... I see a certain somebody named Chosuchi being stopped after his attack by a bunch of Gudōdama humanoids that became a huge mass and halted his attack, but also began to devour him. Funny how you ignored that whole move, huh? And here's another shocker. I find it hard to believe Chosuchi could not only stop the World Hegemony within mere seconds, despite them being linked to Seireitou's will, but in that entire moment, managed to somehow see the future and noticed the barrier forming, and then REACTED quick enough before it finished forming to somehow stop it. And let's entertain for a moment, if you will, that any of that stuff was indeed possible. Which, it isn't, so don't get too attached to the idea. I'm supposed to believe Chosuchi's hands wouldn't burn or be torn off by a barrier ninjutsu empowered by a dōjutsu that literally CUT OFF the spaces from one another? I wasn't under the impression Chosuchi was somehow God and he bore the mighty Gauntlets of Zeus. Sounds to me like you are not only ignoring moves for your convenience, or just underestimate your opponents so gravely that you don't bother to even read the entire post, but also giving Chosuchi a body that can overcome anything he so wishes and strength greater than that of heavenly deities. Yeah, and you're the one who is calling bullshit? You need to seriously chill. Sorry to disappoint you, Dal, but no, you can't beat me nor Ten as simply as "using Edo Minato to beat us both at once". It takes actual brains to do it. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 01:36, October 3, 2014 (UTC) :If you really want to be get into it, i commented that the stuff was trapped within his senjutsu enhanced glove hands. Which can TOUCH truth seeking balls. So yes, i did deal with that. two, his reaction would have started the moment he saw the black mass forming, combined with the fact he was aware of that and the barrier coming up, all he did was make his hand a shit ton bigger. His increase of size is what blocked the barrier itself off, not any extra movements. That's a single move that accomplishes two goals. Three, you applied that dojutsu AFTER the barrier was finished. ::The result was a massive cubical barrier that closed off all four from the Kaguyahime within its walls. It was at this time that the clone within the Kaguyahime, that originally cast the Uchū to seal off the dimension, now cast Uchū once again on the newly created barrier. :That is a direct quote. His extreme durability should be MORE than enough to stop just the barrier. Even then, you are rewriting reality, yet you complain that my character is durable enough to stop something. :Four, his body. You realize that ALL Chosuchi has is essentially taijutsu. I created a character that put every single thing into that. His strength makes sense, his speed makes sense, his durability makes sense. So yeah, I can legit say that his raw strength and speed are higher than either seireitou's or ryun's. His weight at his normal size can range from 240 metric tonnes to as light as 24 kilograms. His strength and speed are purely based off that weight range. His durability is a function of his mutation, which massively increased the density of his own body. This meant his body had to adapt to the weight, as any normal person the body would literally flay itself to pieces as it couldn't hold itself together. The guy is a specialist, so saying that his abilities in is specialty pale in comparison with your character who can do anything is definitely the arrogant thing here.its not worthless, it is only worth less (talk) 01:49, October 3, 2014 (UTC) Dal, you really need to check your facts. I don't care what senjutsu you had, the truth-seeking balls don't magically shatter and disappear just because senjutsu exists. All it does it neutralize the ninjutsu cancelling effects they have, they don't automatically tear them apart. This is precisely why me and Ten call you out on having no knowledge of the series, because you are quick to miss key details. How does Chosuchi anticipate a barrier before it actually happens? It happened after the black mass attacked him. And Seireitou hadn't used barrier ninjutsu earlier in this fight so he had no reason to expect it. What, are you admitting to metagaming now on top of using cheap moves? How does he fight off several living Gudodama controlled by Seireitou directly and clumped together into a huge mass, so quickly that he sees a barrier being formed and somehow reacts quick enough to stop it? I don't care if he's as fucking strong as a thousand Lady Tsunades! It's a barrier forged from chakra, potent chakra from Seireitou himself, who was channeling the technique through four Gudodama points. Chosuchi is human, made of skin and bones. I don't care how many times he's pumped some iron or ran some treadmill, he's not going to be so strong that he can shatter chakra-based structures with a flick of his arm, so don't even try to float by with that lame-ass excuse. And lastly, perhaps you can remark how "physically stronger" and "physically faster" Chosuchi can be than Ryun, but Seireitou, the God of Taijutsu who has mastered eight different schools of force distribution? Carry out your street performances elsewhere. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 02:09, October 3, 2014 (UTC) I never said the black mass was gone, it's just contained really, within the hand. Two, it didn't shatter, all he did was obstruct it from finishing. it can't occupy a point in space that is already occupied.its not worthless, it is only worth less (talk) 02:12, October 3, 2014 (UTC) The fact of the matter is, Dal, the post you made following my post had Chosuchi merely observing the barrier being formed before attempting to stop it. How does one calmly observe something happening when he's being attacked by a huge chaotic black blob trying to eat him up? You either missed that part of my move or decided it magically disappeared. Either way, it happened. And you didn't respond to that move. So you have to deal with the consequences of that. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 02:20, October 3, 2014 (UTC) i made my hand huge, and closed it around the blob and the kaguya/susanoo combo. i don't see how that is ignoring it.its not worthless, it is only worth less (talk) 02:22, October 3, 2014 (UTC) :You need to reread the posts then. It went you attacking with a huge hand again, the black masses stopping you and beginning to devour you; I even wrote that it spread out to expand to the size of your hand so as to devour him. Then it skipped to you somehow "observing" the barrier forming around them without so much as a care in the world. Do you see the skip in progression? That is called ignoring it. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 02:38, October 3, 2014 (UTC) :I made my hand bigger after that post. At the time you formed that blob/started having it devour him, chosuchi was the same size as the kaguya/susanoo thing, maybe slightly bigger, afterwards his hand was big enough for the palm to hit the black stuff and still grab onto the susakaguya. all you did to respond to that action was say the barrier blocked him. Which lead to the debate here. its not worthless, it is only worth less (talk) 02:42, October 3, 2014 (UTC) No, you didn't. Considering the black mass devouring him post is the same post as the barrier creation post, no you didn't. The black mass responded to his massive palm and spread out to become big enough to encompass it. So now you're telling me his hand magically grows on impulse and instinct once something as big as itself arrives to stop it? My response following that one is because, no matter what argument you make here, it is totally improbable that Chosuchi managed to react fast enough to enlarge himself more to be even bigger than a black mass which spread out to match his size during the attack, and somehow took it down in a millisecond, and somehow noticed the barrier going up in the same instant, and somehow moved his enormous hand to stop it from forming completely, all within the same moment despite being incapacitated by the defending black mass to do so. Your entire argument hinges upon the idea that Chosuchi magically managed to defeat a black mass that had itself spread out to match his size when he tried attacking, so quickly that he noticed a barrier and reacted quick enough to stop it from forming. And that just isn't plausible at all. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 02:49, October 3, 2014 (UTC) At the time that the barrier started coming up/that black mass attack, chosuchi was much smaller, being the size of the susakaguya and that black mass, which somehow turned form the size of a couple humans to that big but whatevs. At that point, he enlarged his size again by increasing the size multiplication of the super multi-size again. At that point his hand interdicted the barrier, from the size increase, not any extra movement.its not worthless, it is only worth less (talk) 03:01, October 3, 2014 (UTC) :And yet, none of that is in any of your posts. Am I supposed to just predict that Chosuchi should be doing that and just take your word for it? No, roleplays don't work like that. And furthermore, it doesn't matter how big he was or how big he was going to be. That black mass doesn't have to be bigger than Chosuchi. It is the World Hegemony, which latches onto its target and tries to turn them into will food for Seireitou. You can't just negate it from happening because Chosuchi is bigger or smaller or whatever. Nor can you negate it because it's convenient for you. Chosuchi would have to somehow fight his way out of it. And in the time he would be spending to fend it off, which yes Dal, no matter how strong he is, will take more than just a millisecond, the barrier would have already fully been set up and empowered by dōjutsu. Your argument has no standing here. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 03:23, October 3, 2014 (UTC) I would argue that a non-barrier specialist making an insta-barrier on that scale is kinda ridiculous but i don't feel like arguing about that anymore. I'll just deal with everything as best I can and join back up in current time.its not worthless, it is only worth less (talk) 04:10, October 3, 2014 (UTC) You know what -you completely ignore what I was saying... Likes like Wifi, you may still have a signal present in the area, but if you're not connected to it -> No internet! But you think you're always right, but I won't judge anymore. I didn't give Ace a new technique, its a technique that was already made, but while I was away for a long period of time, the article was deleted. I said it was next because it wasn't being used in th RP. "How can Ace use a move he's never seen?" A Clone saw it all, and I noticed that you are really quick to call people out on Metagaming and the making techniques, well I'm not sitting there making my character untouchable, not unbeatable, you are, but of course you don't see it that way so I'm not going to argue any longer. The point it, we are both at fault what some things we may have pulled (I know I am, and you definitely are by making a jutsu and categorizing it as a Kekkei Genkai, and Ninshuun, when we all know that weaponized Ninshuu is called Jutsu. If it breaks and erects boundries between barriers, then it's a Barrier Ninjutsu, and a Space-Time Ninjutsu, but of course you'd tell everyone that you're using the knownledge the sage passed down to you as an excuse - But that's none of my business. You're always right and others are always wrong. :I've told you already once before that it makes you look unbelievably foolish when using faulty scientific ideas to justify your arguments, but you seem to be incapable of understanding that much, so I'll clarify. The chakra mark Ace left on them all is the connection, your damned article itself says that! How can you argue against what your own damned article itself says? That's like picking and choosing strengths and leaving out flaws in a technique just so opponents can't exploit them, which is incredibly childish. For an internet connection to be broken, the router or the modem would have to be shut off or the laptop or computer would have to manually disable the connection. Once again, you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding. The chakra mark on ALL of them still existed, your article says so itself, that the link to each other's chakra is there due to the mark but transfer of chakra depends on Ace to do so, and you yourself never put down that the mark disappeared from them. If the link is there, even if Ace doesn't want to send chakra down it, a fūinjutsu that behaves by ripping away chakra is going to rip away chakra even from that link. It was already proven that the technique works like that when Kaguya was ripped away of her chakra and the nine beasts themselves too. The fact of the matter is, you're butthurt over the fact that you wanted to play the big hero and save everybody so you could make Ace look so super cool, but in actuality, every single one of his moves cost his comrades dearly. And you need to just accept it instead of throwing temper tantrums like a child. :On a final note, you need to seriously read everything a person says instead of just small parts or skimming through them. How does a clone, who was in the REAL WORLD, see a technique that was being cast IN ANOTHER DIMENSION? A clone saw it all, my ass. It's just another cheap excuse on your part instead of using actual brains to handle an opponent that is way out of your league. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 14:36, October 3, 2014 (UTC) Calorie Control? I really don't want to waste more time arguing, but you might want to explain to me how a technique that converts calories of the user into chakra... was used to turn chakra of the enemy into calories and fats. Because that's bullshit. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 04:37, October 3, 2014 (UTC) That chakra from a source that is not the user can be converted into calories is canon, and in the mangahttp://i.stack.imgur.com/yulKl.jpg Choji's body was covered in kurama's shroud, and that shroud had some of it's chakra converted into first calories then fat. If it can happen with kurama's chakra, it can happen with sei's chakra as well.its not worthless, it is only worth less (talk) 05:01, October 3, 2014 (UTC) :Your argument makes absolutely no sense. Kurama's chakra was given to Choji, it was transferred to him, meaning it became a part of his chakra. That's what transferring chakra to somebody means. The technique specifically states that it influences the user's chakra. It does not, in any way, support any chakra; even an enemy. That does not mean, whatsoever, that it can be used in the same way against an enemy's chakra that's being used to attack them. You can't use one situation to justify a completely different situation just because the word "chakra" appears in both cases. If that's your only example in the canon, I am still calling bullshit. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 05:05, October 3, 2014 (UTC) :Yet not only does ryun have a destroy all chakra button, he can now use it vastly outside of it's only limitation in range with absolutely zero discussion. AND EVEN THEN, it's not a part of his chakra, it was merely in his system. Kurama's chakra and Naruto's chakra are TWO SEPARATE THINGS. That is why Naruto kept being able to get more chakra from Kurama, because they are not the same thing. If the jin's chakra is not the same, by definition neither is the chakra of a transfer. If your chakra contacts his, he can eat it. Also trust me, i asked at least half a dozen other users before I did this, none of which are in the RP, so far you are the only one who disagrees with it, which makes sense cause it let him break your move. A move that has only been used at melee range in canon.its not worthless, it is only worth less (talk) 05:11, October 3, 2014 (UTC) Oh, how convenient. You asked users privately and they agreed with you. That sure is the first time I've heard that line. Well, then trust me when I say that they probably know as much about canon as you do. Which isn't much. Even if I were to entertain your idiocy and agree that such a thing was possible, you seem to conveniently forget that Kurama's chakra was sent to Choji. It already entered him, it merged with his chakra; hence the transfer. How does chakra from the outside become susceptible to this technique when, not only is it manipulated by Seireitou's will, meaning it isn't neutral chakra and it can't be freely absorbed or taken down without a fight (which is what I have been telling you COUNTLESS. FUCKING. TIMES. And I've had just about enough of you being incapable of grasping such simple logic), but hasn't been actually absorbed into Chosuchi's system like Kurama's chakra did for Choji? That would mean Chosuchi would first need to absorb the chakra to pull off that trick, which, in case I just went blind, Chosuchi does not have any chakra absorption techniques. If you used an actual legit way to counter me, I'd have no complaints. But I take pride in my work. And I won't sully my efforts by accepting bullshit from you. Especially not you, who doesn't know even a lick about the canon. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 05:21, October 3, 2014 (UTC) Let's compare the two moves, since you are so intent on this. Calorie Control vs World Hegemony and requisite techniques (you used TSB to make this particular version) Calorie control Canon: Can convert fat to calories, can turn chakra that is not the user's own into fat. This is canon, this is not deniable. World Hegemony Canon: Melee range, can convert a person into a clone of the caster via will. This is canon, this is not deniable. TSB: Immune to Ninjutsu, Highly resistant to Taijutsu, which can damage it but the object is generally hurt, is vulnerable to senjutsu. 70 meter, roughly 220 feet, max range, limited time it can remain transformed. This is all canon, this is not up to discussion. This is where we both stretched the techniques we used. Cause there is stretching involved. CC stretching: Can convert will infused chakra. That is it vs World Hegemony. :Using this ability, by making physical contact with the target, the user can infuse their will into the target, bringing the target under their complete control. You are infusing it into the person, that is a directly from the page, meaning that your point about it not being inside him is null. But I also used it against the barrier. Adding two stretches, that it can be used on physical contact instead of requiring internal chakra, and that it can absorb fuinjutsu. Which to be fair, that last bit is actually a really big stretch, i'd be annoyed about that too. WH & TSB stretching: I combined them because they were used together. That WH can be used at range, that all of your chakra can be a medium for it, that you can cast a barrier off of it, that you can create an extremely large number of them. You also used these TSBs with shape transformation for a period of time that easily exceeded a minute. (the page from them states that's the limit.) As you can already see, you are already stretching the abilities FAR beyond what canon has shown of their capabilities, and far more than my calorie control usage has. But the damning thing is, not that you stretched the abilities, and used them in ways not envisioned by canon, you directly contradicted canon with the TSB usage. The user can only control the balls within 70 metres of their location, allowing opponents to separate them from the user by transporting them elsewhere. (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 20:54, October 3, 2014 (UTC) Controlling the arms of the massive construct once again, its hands reached out and grabbed onto two of the large Gudōdama belonging to Ryun. "I'm going to borrow two of these. It'll be best that both of our wills command this technique rather than merely my own." he explained as he formed a one-handed seal of confrontation. yeah, you totes made those balls out of your own technique. its not worthless, it is only worth less (talk) 21:05, October 3, 2014 (UTC) Sei, I'm only going to say this once. You're going from defending your own position to attacking the opposition. This is unacceptable. I'd expect for two people to settle their differences in a calm and understanding manner rather than throwing insults around. The same goes for Dal. You shouldn't be attacking Dal or his character and Dal should not be attacking you or your character. Any more of this and I will take disciplinary action. I don't want to be that guy, but I will do it if it boils down to that point.. Old Deus (talk) 21:15, October 3, 2014 (UTC) :Once again, Dal demonstrates an inability to understand anything. Yes, Dal, Sei combined Adorned Branch with Ryun's Truth-Seeking Balls. It's called collaboration, look it up. Sei's technique would make up for the flaws in Ryun's Truth-Seeking Balls, and Ryun's technique would grant Sei's technique with enough material to pull off a large-scale technique. I'm sorry that the term collaboration escapes your personal dictionary. Relax, Deus. I don't plan on pushing this further, I made my point and Dal can continue spewing nonsense all he wants. But I seriously recommend you admins consider another operator, because this one doesn't know a thing he talks about. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 21:23, October 3, 2014 (UTC) Conclusion You all should probably conclude this battle as soon as possible because its obvious that this is no longer a roleplay. When fellow collaborating authors are trading insults like its christmas, there's a problem going on. When you come to the point where you no longer care about the other authors input, its time to call it quits. You can not possibly have a conducive and enjoyable roleplaying experience if you neither respect nor acknowledge the actions another persons character takes. Dismissing them with nary an effort or worse, outright ignoring them pretty much indicates the weight of their word to you. So unless you respect the author, and their work, don't bother roleplaying with them. Otherwise this kind of vitriol is inevitable, and no one walks away unscathed. If for whatever reason you all want to continue the roleplay, take a break reevaluate what you want and try to discuss this in a civil, and rational manner without degrading to petty insults. --- Abysmal Shadows (Talk) 04:32, October 4, 2014 (UTC) : I'm entirely with Void on this one. I come home to see the talk page turning into this? What the actual Hell? No. I will not be involved in a dung flinging contest. Ten out. I have the FC to worry about. I don't need to be stressed doing to something I enjoy. 05:57, October 4, 2014 (UTC)